The "Do you believe in..." - thread

RayPeterson

RayPeterson

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In order to get the non-Burbs-related discussion a little bit going, I introduce the "Do you believe in..." thread.

What about the following idea: One of the Burbs members asks the other members about their opinion by starting the question with "Do you believe in..." and then we will be discussing it for one week. After the week is over (and we feel that it has been discussed properly), another board member asks another "Do you believe in" - question.

OK, I'll start with asking the question (but not yet stating my opinion).

<font color="#ee0000">Topic No. 1: Do you believe in god?</font>

Here we go.
 
You're not going to like the answer Ray,

I've never seen god with my eyes, I grew up in a Christian family that constantly read the bible, but never "forced or pushed" it upon me.

I have some neighbors that are severely christian, and by that I mean...quoting the bible for every single thing good happening, and of course...the devil or demons every-time something goes wrong, I got really tired of these people, so I rarely visit them anymore, they don't quite get "why".

Once, they felt lonely and asked me - why doesn't anyone visit them? Are people too busy with life? Are we pest? Are we cholera? Why and why?

I answered them that I thought they where nice people, maaaaaaaybe tune down on the 24-hours-bible-babble talk once in a moonlight from time to time. The retaliation was quite aggressive, something about me not coming from a true christian family etc. etc. and you can never get too much of the bible and the word of god etc.

These kind of people, however friendly they may be, sort of put me off a bit, because in my world...it's perfectly okay to have a belief, just as long as you stay cool...you know - both feet firmly planted on planet-earth.

To ask someone if they believe in god or not, is a very provocative question, it's highly personal at best, it seems so simple to just ask for a YES / NO - answer, but it's never as simple as that, especially for a thinking mind, not some mind that has been hypnotized by a book that is several thousands of years old and lots of people claiming to have seen Jesus, God or whatnot.

I'm a scientist at heart, I believe in hard cold facts, but being a hobby-scientist...amateur scientist at best, it is in my nature to always seek out knowledge and find out, take notes, experiment and such, therefor I cannot conclusively say I don't believe either, in fact - how is it even scientifically possible at all?

If you look at it from a cold scientific point of view, and if you have at all read the bible, or understand what Christians think of God - then you'll already know that they always blame him for every good thing, and every bad thing on the Devil.

And if you look at human nature, you KNOW what they are quite capable of, murder, deception, child abuse, thievery, power abuse, love, hate, and any crime & sin you can think of, most of them (that I know of) readily lie about that in order to make it possible to survive the day as they themselves say.

How can a merciful God watch and overlook the thousands of children being abused every day & night in this world? Think Fritzel...a mad man that constantly raped & molested a bunch of them he kept secretly in a cellar for YEARS! How did he get away with this so easily and for so long?

How did Hitler get away with mass ethnic cleansing, and even convinced perfectly normal people that killing Jews by mass murders was perfectly okay? HOW?

I'm not even going to mention the other religions of this world as they have a lot of fanatics (also reading this forum) and this could potentially endanger my own people just for voicing my opinion on their religious belief, so this is very potent stuff indeed, maybe best left alone if you ask me.

But there you have it, from me - to you - you DID ask. ;)
 
I don't find Mr P's question provocative at all. Being a deist myself I would say that I haven't given up the idea of a God, but I sure don't believe in all the ***** written down in the "holy books".

I believe that there is something, maybe so great that our human brains can't even comprehend it. For me religion = problems. My opinion on this is that you may believe in what ever you like but keep it personal and in the privacy of your own home/church/mosque/synagogue...

My answer to "Do you believe in God"
Depending on how you define God my answer is both YES and NO. :D
 
Don't mean to be provocative at all with the question, just interested. And whatever reply someone will give me: nothing can be provocative to me since everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I just might not share it.

I consider myself an atheist. I don't believe in the god which is depicted in the bible. I've read the bible as well. I don't believe that this displeasing, jealous, narrow-minded, unfair, unforgiving, bloodthirsty, misogynic, sadistic, racist and capricious being that we can read of in the Old Testament is supposed to be the creator of heaven and earth (based on "The god delusion" by Richard Dawkins, a book I can only recommend).

But besides of the bible I also don't believe in an almighty god who's watching us and hearing our prayers as well. What is it that leads us to the conclusion that mankind, an advanced form of the order of primates, has been created by the same being which created the whole universe? First we have been the center of the universe. Oops, sorry, not true. Then we have at least been the center of our solar system. Oops, no, that's the sun. All attemps of presumptous mankind to be the glorious creation of god which is placed in the center of everything have gone down (at least the ones we were able to falsify). But hey, at least he still created us, right?

Nonetheless there are some things I believe in. I believe that we all have a soul and our bodies are just the mantle around it. I believe in the reincarnation of souls. I believe that souls choose their way of experiences they want to make, before being born in a body. I believe souls make the intentional decision to e.g. experiencing what it means to have cancer in order to grow and learn and get closer to perfection. And maybe there's a godly force above this system. This would be the only version of god I could probably believe in.

And I believe that the word of the bible is true. If you think that's contradictory: I believe that many of these things which are written down in the bible did happen in the real world. The only question is: What was it really, what the people considered to be gods and angels? Which kind of beings did visit us in the past? You probably guess what I'm driving at?

Perfect cliffhanger. Discussion to be continued.
 
It's not provocative to ME, but this is a public forum that can be GOOGLED, so I just hinted that at you all so you can be very mindful about what you write.

Remember the Danish situation we had a few years back, when a bunch of people was told to interpret the prophet (in the competing religion, which I won't mention, but you all know what is anyway) in the form of CARTOON DRAWINGS, and needless to say....the entire Arabic world went crazy, put embassies on fire, raged in the streets, went mad...ah well..you should remember this big spot in history (and hopefully - learn from it).

<span class="postlistquotedtext"><blockquote>quote:<center><hr width="100%"/></center>RayPeterson wrote:

I consider myself an atheist.

.....

I believe that we all have a soul and our bodies are just the mantle around it. I believe in the reincarnation of souls.<center><hr width="100%"/></center></blockquote></span>

Really? I don't know if you know HOW contradictory this sounds (or reads as it may be), re-read your sentences above, and check up upon the definition of Atheism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://everythingelseatheism.blogspot.com/2009/02/problems-with-reincarnation.html

While it's true that some Atheists claim they can be both Atheists AND believe in an immortal SOUL (an spirit, an entity that lives on without the physical body), this is not very scientific at all.

It's just my opinion.

Maybe you can call yourself an Atheist with modifications ;)

The YES and NO'ers...are just neutral (with modifications, usually philosophical, unable to take a stand...or a side...usually call themselves TOLERANT as they don't want to have an opinion that will go against the other side) In my world - that's the neutralists.

 
Now for the BURBS quote of the day, can you figure out Rumsfields reaction to my last sentence above? :D
 
<span class="postlistquotedtext"><blockquote>quote:<center><hr width="100%"/></center>JoOngle wrote:

Now for the BURBS quote of the day, can you figure out Rumsfields reaction to my last sentence above? :D
<center><hr width="100%"/></center></blockquote></span>

"hey ricky, get that lame-o out of your yard!"
lol just kidding, really my 1st thought was,
"why dont you take your balls out of your wife's purse, and make a stand for one time in your life!?"
 
Well if it's not provocative to you, or me, or Mr P then it shouldn't be a problem discussing it.

I get your point about this being a public forum but then again imo Mr P didn't ask anything inappropriate at all. Comparing this to Lars Vilks is bit far stretched if you ask me.

What I find contradictory is using the word "scientific" to prove/disprove someones religious/spiritual points of view.

Of course you can be an atheist and still believe in a soul or what not, we have great examples of this in ancient eastern philosophy.

A belief is a belief and a persons belief is not necessary to put in any specific category.

As long as you believe in it, it's more then enough and probably makes as much sense as anything preached in the bigger religions.

 
I am aware of what happened in connection with the caricatures in the Jyllandsposten. I know that some people who should immediately be commited to the nuthouse were burning flags, destroying churches and threatening others with death in a ridiculous overreaction. And what is the result? Self-restraint and self-restriction.

Everyone is entitled to believe in whatever he or she wants. But no one else is obligated to take that seriously. However, if you don't take it seriously or don't give the respect they want, they physically threaten you. Why? That's the question, WHY?

What is it that makes us so incredibly respect religion? Do we defend President Obama if some newspaper depicts him in a cartoony way? No. Because we don't really care.

So I say generally NO to this overcaution. "Take care what you say". "Some people might feel offended". "A very provocative subject".

Do you really think that's what it means to

<span class="postlistquotedtext"><blockquote>quote:<center><hr width="100%"/></center>JoOngle wrote:

learn from it).

<center><hr width="100%"/></center></blockquote></span>

What causes this immense demand of respect for religious aspects which does not seem to be valid for other aspects of life? Would you like to burn the German flag and skin me alive when I say: "The Swedish soccer team sucks!" or "Volvo is a car built for morons."? No. You might laugh and say "Well if that's your opinion."

Why are so many people not able to laugh and say "Well that's you opinion" if I say that I don't believe in god and religion has caused more bad things in the history of mankind than good things? Probably the North and South Tower of the WTC would still be standing if there was no religion. Who knows? Is this thesis provocative?

I stick to my opinion without any way of self-restraint or overcaution, no matter if it's in a message board or in a face-to-face talk with a priest.

I'm an atheist in the sense that I don't believe in the existence of an almighty being which is god. I'm not talking about a guy with a white beard who's sitting in the clouds, I'm talking about a supernatural superhuman intelligence which created universe and everything within it. Nonetheless I can imagine that souls and the reincarnation within physical beings in the universe exist (which does not depend on the existence of god). That may not be scientific for you but I didn't claim that scientific character is the primary goal of my philosophy.
 
OK, the week is over. Anybody wants to start a new discussion? I suggest we don't necessarily make it the "Do you believe in..." - thread but the "Do you believe..." thread (which means that also questions can be asked like "Do you believe that...".

So who has an interesting topic?
 
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